Phantom Grip LSD?

[Koots]

Anyone know or have any experience with these things?

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/i ... index.html

It sounds like it's a durable alternative to expensive LSD's but I don't know enough about modifying FWD drivetrains to know if this is of any use or not.

I plan on rebuilding a spare 3T40 with a damn good rebuild kit, shift kit and hopefully run one of these. That way it could withstand turbocharging in the next few years too and still stay on the road LOL

I just have to remember that my 95 Corsica was bought as a DD and a beater...but i'm beginning to make it nicer and nicer.

[Koots]

Sorry about the link,

It actually makes you go down and find it....the big top banner stays the same no matter what you click on...

[Koots]

I've decided, open differential is good enough for me and my rock solid DD.

I got a few spare Corsica's now, which could utilize one with a completely built 3T40 (by yours truly) and running a V6 or turbo 2.2L.

At least I could make it hook better and not roast the hell out of the front pass.tire LOL

[Barry]

They are not a durable option, I would roast one very quickly.

That is a static lock lsd, so it can only transmit X amount of torque. A true LSD has a static lock value, and a dynamic lock that increases as applied torque increases. Usually done with ramps/wedges and clutches.

The phantom lsd is just spring pressure that creates the lock. Last I saw it didn't even use clutch material.

Your next best lsd would be a EP one. It is almost the same but uses clutch material between the plates and spiders. Still, I would not consider this a real LSD.

A real LSD has variable lock

[ErichZ26]

There is not a lot of difference between EP, Phantom, Team Green. They all put pressure and friction on the spider gears. Some use different friction materials and spring ratings but they are all the same concept. Torque Sensing limited slips are quite different from the above.


There are pluses and minuses with all these that are available for certain transmissions. There is even debate whether a $2000+ TorSen is even effective in racing circumstances with our front wheel drive. They were primarily used in road race circumstances, but for off the line drag racing you may be better off with a pressure/friction or even welded differential.

[Robert 89gt]

I love my EP LSD it hooks great rain or shine=)

[Koots]

They are not a durable option, I would roast one very quickly.

That is a static lock lsd, so it can only transmit X amount of torque. A true LSD has a static lock value, and a dynamic lock that increases as applied torque increases. Usually done with ramps/wedges and clutches.

The phantom lsd is just spring pressure that creates the lock. Last I saw it didn't even use clutch material.

Your next best lsd would be a EP one. It is almost the same but uses clutch material between the plates and spiders. Still, I would not consider this a real LSD.

A real LSD has variable lock

Thanks!

I was just calling them what they called it. I also have a "locker" installed from the factory in my 8.5" 10-bolt axle...but is more like a mechanical LSD than a locker...so people use the term very loosely in the industry.

[Kris GTwhat?]

I havent heard too many good things about the team green setups. If i were to get a lsd, i would suck it up and send my diff in to ep for them to convert it. Just sounds like the safer option, but a much more costly alternative

[99GaGT3X00]

if your getting one for drag racing just get a spare and weld it, and keep one Un-modified for regular driving. it's easy enough to swap them on these cars.

[3X00-Modified]

There is not a lot of difference between EP, Phantom, Team Green. They all put pressure and friction on the spider gears. Some use different friction materials and spring ratings but they are all the same concept. Torque Sensing limited slips are quite different from the above.

I disagree with that statment but then everyone disagrees with what I have to say about a LSD anyways so I've given up. All I will say is I run a EP and have since around 2006

[ErichZ26]

There is not a lot of difference between EP, Phantom, Team Green. They all put pressure and friction on the spider gears. Some use different friction materials and spring ratings but they are all the same concept. Torque Sensing limited slips are quite different from the above.

I disagree with that statment but then everyone disagrees with what I have to say about a LSD anyways so I've given up. All I will say is I run a EP and have since around 2006

Which part of above do you disagree with?
The fact that all 3 of the brands i posted put pressure and friction on the spider gears?
I have installed both EP and Team Green LSD's.

The 3 known setups work to some degree. One issues is when cornering the inside tire has to turn slower, the limited slip diff tends to cause the inside tire to lose traction and spin it as fast as the outer. The Torsen/Quaife design when setup properly allows the inside tire to still have some traction and not over power it.

The EP is probably the best setup for drag racing. I am right now using with the Team Green in my Quad 4 car until i decide to blow money on the Torsen/Quaife which is $2000+ and basically an entire differential package. The 3 I listed eventually wear out, and may even wear the spider gears down.

Lately i have been having fun with my GTZ cornering with my sticky tires when i have the chance. I didn't autocross this morning like i had planned.

[Koots]

Seems the PG is good for a toy/weekend racer car, that will probably see a ton of maintenance just to keep the parts costs down and keep racing. You could just replace it, if it wears, in a weekend.

I think i'll stick to building one with a spare.

[3X00-Modified]

Seems the PG is good for a toy/weekend racer car, that will probably see a ton of maintenance just to keep the parts costs down and keep racing. You could just replace it, if it wears, in a weekend.

I think i'll stick to building one with a spare.

Along with replacing your diff... There are no clutches between the spider gears and the diff carrier they are using only the STEEL plate shims that are there stock and putting force against them... you will destroy the entire unit when it begins to wear those areas.

I disagree with the statement of there are not a lot of differences. Because yes they are all of the same "theory" but they are all designed differently and will wear parts differently. I JUST replaced my spider gears last year for the first time since I've owned the unit and it probably had 40k on it of daily driving. All of the differential carriers I used though are still 100% intact and re-usable. when a PG or TG unit wears out the shims your carrier will be toast.

Here are pictures of what happens to a PG... Others have posted carrier damage photos as well.

[ErichZ26]

Do you have photo's of a worn EP'ed LSD in a manual transmission?

I know the Team Green has puts a huge load on the spider gears and when it does eventually slip it will do this.

I question which actually has a greater limited slip. Does the clutch material actually hold better or provide less friction and less wear.

I went with the Team Green on my W41 trans because the parts were available and i didn't have to ship the differential and wait for Jeff to install.

You replaced the LSD @40k miles. How many miles did it last before you noticed an increase of slippage?

[ErichZ26]

Seems the PG is good for a toy/weekend racer car, that will probably see a ton of maintenance just to keep the parts costs down and keep racing. You could just replace it, if it wears, in a weekend.

I think i'll stick to building one with a spare.

Team Green has higher K value in their springs. I believe its almost 30% greater. Don't get the PG