1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:49 pm

It is most noticeable on a manual brake application. Your Vette is boosted, so along with the booster you get less pedal ratio and a bigger bore master. Both of those compensate for knockback better.

On a manual brake application you have comparatively more pedal ratio and a smaller bore master to get some more hydraulic advantage. Both of those add to pedal travel, so knockback is more noticeable.

A c-clip axle in the rear also gives more knock back. Where your irs has sealed hubs. The bearing is what makes the difference though.


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:47 pm

Haven't updated this post in a while, but after reading Geoff's updates, I figured I'd mention a few of the things I've done to my GTZ [semi] recently. I'm currently in the annual mad dash to get the car ready for BerettaFest so most of the stuff has happened within the past few weeks. I'll post more pics here in a bit - if anyone has an alternative to picture hosting (since PhotoBucket went nuts), I'm all ears.

Recent Mods:
- New wheels/Tires - I sold my Whistler wheels a while back. I'll post pictures of the wheels after Bfest
- Koni shocks/struts - After debating this mod for years, I bit the bullet and went ahead and bought 'em. I'd been concerned about the difficulty in modifying the struts to make the inserts work, but it was surprisingly easy (and even kind of fun)
- LED lighting (dash, foot wells and dome) - Makes things feel so much newer inside
- DashTek dash mat
- Covercraft custom windshield sunshade (specifically made for the Beretta)
- Bluetooth add-on for my ancient Alpine H/U
- New Alpine Type-S speakers (5.25 and 6x9)
- Leather shift boot (always hated the rubber accordion!)
- Rebuilt factory CV axles by CVSource - finally going to have the correct CVs with the ABS ring!
- ARP wheel studs on the front to accommodate the 10mm wheel spacers (to get the look I'm going for; new wheels are +48mm offset and are sunk too far in on the front)

Older mods/repairs:
- Neon rear disc conversion
- '93 Lumina Z34 master cylinder (I do not recommend this with the Wilwood/Neon setup)
- Installed Addco rear swaybar
- Energy Suspension bushings for control arms, tie rod ends
- new lower ball joints (difficult to get the stock ones out but well worth the hassle when/if you ever have to change them a 2nd time)

There are a lot more things that I'm forgetting, but it's been a while since I've done some of that stuff. I generally don't do a whole lot to the car during the 10 months before Bfest and then it's a scramble to get everything done in the 8 weeks before Bfest. I still need to have my exhaust replaced as it sounds like total ass right now, but we'll see if that happens before Bfest this year or not.

I was somewhat forced into swapping wheels because my set of Whistlers just had too much offset and with the Neon rear disc setup, the rear wheels were pushed out too far and rubbed the wheel wells on almost every bump when there was any weight/load in the rear. Obviously traveling to and from Bfest we're generally loaded down so this was a major problem which had me screaming in anger every time I went over bumps (as the tires made a lovely sound when they contacted the body). They didn't do any damage to the car, but I couldn't take it anymore. The new wheels are substantially lighter and the +48mm offset gives me 22mm more clearance than the other set did. That additional clearance of ~0.8" is significant with the Neon rear disc setup. I'm excited to get the car on the road and see how it does but I'm waiting on a few final details.

More to come.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:31 am

So you had not enough offset and they rubbed the outer lip? Stock offset is 42mm IIRC. So if these new wheels give you 22mm more clearance with or without the spacer? That leaves you at 36mm or 26mm offset for the last set of wheels. I'm not surprised they had issues.

I'll be curious to see how that lumina master works with functional ABS. I bet it's pretty sweet. I stopped in 106' with stock front brakes and the neon rears. You might be sub-100 which is getting into super car level.


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:48 pm

woody90gtz wrote:So you had not enough offset and they rubbed the outer lip? Stock offset is 42mm IIRC. So if these new wheels give you 22mm more clearance with or without the spacer? That leaves you at 36mm or 26mm offset for the last set of wheels. I'm not surprised they had issues.


My Whistlers were +30 but I had to run a 4mm spacer to clear the caliper (hence the effective +26). The current wheels are +48. I'm going to be running a 10mm spacer up front and I'm going to reuse the 4mm spacers in the rear (effective offset +44). I'm optimistic that I won't have any of the same horrendous rubbing issues that I had before. The reason for the running the small spacer is the wheel bore itself. The wheels are 56.1mm, whereas the Beretta is 57.1. If I had more time I'd just have the wheels machined that 1mm but I'm out of time so I need the spacers (at least in the rear, fronts are for looks) to clear the larger Beretta hub. I'll get things corrected eventually if it proves problematic but this should work just fine for now.

I'll be curious to see how that lumina master works with functional ABS. I bet it's pretty sweet. I stopped in 106' with stock front brakes and the neon rears. You might be sub-100 which is getting into super car level.


I'm going to give the Lumina master another shot and run it on the trip to Bfest this year. Because this car gets driven so infrequently I sometimes forget exactly what I did (or didn't) like about certain parts.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:59 pm

Yeah, +26 and then another 20mm of tire means your clearance was an 24mm less than stock. Add that with lowering springs and there you go.

I've been thinking of adding ABS. If yours goes well that could be a real upgrade with my sticky tires.


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:39 pm

You can upload pics directly to this site.... .... ... .. . .. Do you need instructions Brian?

ABS been doing it since 96... But two years ago I was labeled as not cool... should delete it... Now it's hot again...

And Brian, why would you not recommend that master with that caliper setup?



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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:41 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:You can upload pics directly to this site.... .... ... .. . .. Do you need instructions Brian?

ABS been doing it since 96... But two years ago I was labeled as not cool... should delete it... Now it's hot again...

And Brian, why would you not recommend that master with that caliper setup?


Unless something has changed, doesn't the forum resize the pictures into small, clickable thumbnails? I had always referenced my photobucket account (or similar) in the past.

As for the master - I just really don't like the brake feel (or performance) as compared to the factory master. The Wilwood brakes did much better with the factory master. I'll know more when I get the car back on the road before/during Bfest. It's honestly been ~6+ months since I've really driven the car anymore than 5 miles at a time.

I did a little work on the car this evening. I got my rebuild OEM axles back from CV Source today and I was going to go ahead and install everything tonight, along with new seals and the new Koni strut setup. After accidentally pulling my axle BEFORE draining the transmission (I don't recommend this method), I decided to work on swapping my springs over to my Koni struts. The only complication I've found is the upper mount washer and sleeve. I'll have to get some pictures but I may need to modify the sleeve a little bit to shorten it a tad.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:39 pm

Well the stock master only sends 1/3 of the pedal pressure to the rear. I don't know how that can possibly be better...except for keeping your rear rotors and pads looking brand new.

Jon, the ABS unit is super ugly and it looks so much cleaner without it. But given how my car can be unpredictably tail happy during lockup it's a function over form thing.


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:55 pm

Now that BerettaFest is over, the cat is out of the bag. I bought a new set of wheels a little bit ago to replace my Whistlers that I was running before. The new wheels are Rays RS-Zero wheels which were the factory JDM STI wheel from ~18+ years ago. They are a forged wheel and weigh just 15.6lbs and are 17x7.5" with a +48mm offset. I decided to run spacers to fit out the wheel wells a little bit better. I used a 5mm in the rear with a 10mm up front. I also installed 2.5" ARP wheel studs to accommodate for the spacers up front. Tires are Continental ExtremeContact Sport. I'm really pleased with the setup so far. The setup performs exceptionally well. When I got back from BerettaFest I had another day off of work so I decided to head to the Dragon (US129) and do some spirited driving. The car felt glued to the road.

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Last edited by DanteGTZ on Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:08 pm

Almost forgot - I finally had my exhaust system fully done. I took the car to a local speed/tuner shop and had them install a stainless 2.5" mandrel bent system complete from the manifold back. Most of the system was part of the cat-back group buy from a couple years ago. To try to keep the terrible Quad4 drone to a minimum, I had them install 2 resonators (Aero Turbine into a Vibrant UltraQuiet p/n 1141) and I went with a Magnaflow muffler (p/n 11256).

Sound is pretty good (IMHO) for a Quad4 and drone is quite tolerable. It could be quieter but I'm still very happy.

The system was much more expensive than I would have thought but it was one of last items still lingering that needed to be done. I probably could have had it done cheaper by an exhaust shop but I wanted everything mandrel bent and wanted to keep everything stainless. Luckily this system should stay nice for a many years to come.

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Pardon the dirty exhaust tips... haha

Oh -- and it looks like I'll be pulling the transmission in the next couple days. The internal slave cylinder decided to start leaking and left me without a clutch. I'll be replacing the master cylinder, the slave and replacing the plastic hydraulic line with a custom braided stainless line. I'm hoping that it might improve clutch feel a bit.

Also installed a new head unit - AFTER BerettaFest... My old Alpine head unit just sounded terrible, even with brand new Alpine speakers. I picked up a new Alpine CD/BT receiver and it sounded 1000x better than the old one. The new speakers are impressive. Still would prefer to go with some more amp power, but the deck power will do for now.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby themixer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:30 pm

that looks mint as heck.



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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 pm

Did you ever get a chance to try some panic stops with the abs working?


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby DanteGTZ » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:22 pm

woody90gtz wrote:Did you ever get a chance to try some panic stops with the abs working?


Not yet - In fact, I've tried to be gentle on the brakes because I'm getting some pretty monstrous vibration or something whenever I brake. I haven't been able to determine if it's coming from the front or rear, but it feels almost like a rotor is warped but the weird part is I feel it in the pedal, not the steering wheel. I'll have to dig into that one later.


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF

Previous Berettas: 90 GT, 93 Quasar GTZ, 93 Garnet GTZ, 93 Aqua GT

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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:28 am

I would suspect rear of it's in the pedal and not steering wheel


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Re: 1993 Quad4 GTZ: Project WTF

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:30 am

woody90gtz wrote:I would suspect rear of it's in the pedal and not steering wheel

What he said.

Car is looking amazing! I wanted to go stainless too, almost went with the common (OE type) grade (lasts long enough, but discolors notably), but I currently only weld with mild wire, so why pay extra for the good material and still have rusty joints?


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