Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu May 01, 2014 8:24 am

The current setup to my knowledge is a 2.625 diameter SC pulley, the crank we know is 6.11 according to what you can find online... maybe its 6" on the belt groove area, not sure I can measure that later again to verify. So that gives us roughly 2.32 pulley ratio... according to Vortech to find out the SC impeller speed its

(Crank Diameter * 3.45 (internal step up) * Peak RPM) / SC pulley diameter

SO

(6.11 * 3.45 * 6750) / 2.625 = 54204rpm ROUGHLY... :)

That hopefully puts it in the 72% deficiency area(if i'm reading the graph right), but I don't know the peak boost at that RPM to verify for sure what it is. If it's 10psi as Tyler expects it to be that's a bit odd because that would be a ~1.68 pressure ratio (right?) and that would dump the point out of the charted efficiency graph but up in the lb/min... Right below the pencil RC mark and above the 50k notation... Am I right?

Ben stated that SC should put out 17 psi at a 2.4 belt ratio... so I would assume it should be around 15PSI since we have a ratio of 2.32... boy this gets deep... That PSI value would make sense on the map too, it would be right in the 72% efficiency area with a Pressure ratio of roughly 2.0

Too add to all of this... I had everything done last night and the car wont start... For some reason the injectors aren't firing at all. Few things I have to check are grounds to the ECU and then next on the list is ICM signal to the ECU... I noticed the dash jumping up to 4k while cranking and the ECU has a 4k P/N fuel cut... I raised that to 8k and I will try that tonight... If I get a pop of an ignition then I think I need to pull this harness out and swap in mine from my red car, or trace it to find out whats wrong with it OR try a new ICM first.

DAMMIT!



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby Slinky » Thu May 01, 2014 12:11 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:The current setup to my knowledge is a 2.625 diameter SC pulley, the crank we know is 6.11 according to what you can find online... maybe its 6" on the belt groove area, not sure I can measure that later again to verify. So that gives us roughly 2.32 pulley ratio... according to Vortech to find out the SC impeller speed its

(Crank Diameter * 3.45 (internal step up) * Peak RPM) / SC pulley diameter

SO

(6.11 * 3.45 * 6750) / 2.625 = 54204rpm ROUGHLY... :)

That hopefully puts it in the 72% deficiency area(if i'm reading the graph right), but I don't know the peak boost at that RPM to verify for sure what it is. If it's 10psi as Tyler expects it to be that's a bit odd because that would be a ~1.68 pressure ratio (right?) and that would dump the point out of the charted efficiency graph but up in the lb/min... Right below the pencil RC mark and above the 50k notation... Am I right?

Ben stated that SC should put out 17 psi at a 2.4 belt ratio... so I would assume it should be around 15PSI since we have a ratio of 2.32... boy this gets deep... That PSI value would make sense on the map too, it would be right in the 72% efficiency area with a Pressure ratio of roughly 2.0

Too add to all of this... I had everything done last night and the car wont start... For some reason the injectors aren't firing at all. Few things I have to check are grounds to the ECU and then next on the list is ICM signal to the ECU... I noticed the dash jumping up to 4k while cranking and the ECU has a 4k P/N fuel cut... I raised that to 8k and I will try that tonight... If I get a pop of an ignition then I think I need to pull this harness out and swap in mine from my red car, or trace it to find out whats wrong with it OR try a new ICM first.

DAMMIT!


The crank pulley is actually 5.9 over the serpentine area, so (5.9 * 3.45 * 6750) / 2.625 = 52,341rpm

And 15psi would be crazy, the stock pulley was around 3" making 6.5psi, the new one is 2.625 and i figured should make 9.5psi, Am i wrong?

And there should be a another computer in the tote i left at your place..


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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu May 01, 2014 12:30 pm

Slinky wrote:And 15psi would be crazy, the stock pulley was around 3" making 6.5psi, the new one is 2.625 and i figured should make 9.5psi, Am i wrong?


This I don't know about... What did you use for math to get the 9.5 psi figure?

I'm going off what Ben said, with a ratio of 1.9 it should produce 12psi... 5.9 crank and 3" pulley is 1.96... So right there we know that's probably not right and I'm not really sure why. I would be curious to see what the PSI loss across the IC is... but I can't see it cutting it in half.

I'll have to do some checking once it's all running... and we have to remember, Ben's info was from a simulation program, not sure how accurate that is in real life.

And yeah already swapped ECU's that was the first thing I tried.... next is the ICM since the dash is fed from the ICM and that's the only wacky signal I'm seeing. Not a SINGLE SES code at all, so I know all the sensors are getting proper signal, or at least reporting stuff within spec.... I unplugged the MAP sensor and got a code so that's a good verification.

And I was getting oil pressure during cranking and the fuel pump was running so that's a good thing :)



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby nocutt » Thu May 01, 2014 1:16 pm

Image

This is from Jon's initial post...I just put in 30 and 35 lb/min of air (I pulled from where light does not reach) to see what it looks like with a pressure ratio of ~1.68 bar (absolute). I think the impeller speed should be between 51K-54K rpm irregardless of an aftercooler or not, granted ~60k rpm (shown) I think is the max...

Obviously all theory, but with a little math (engine real world breathing capability) you can come a little closer to a real world max output. I personally believe your compressor is a good fit and can grow a little...
Last edited by nocutt on Thu May 01, 2014 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby nocutt » Thu May 01, 2014 1:21 pm

Slinky wrote:The crank pulley is actually 5.9 over the serpentine area, so (5.9 * 3.45 * 6750) / 2.625 = 52,341rpm

And 15psi would be crazy, the stock pulley was around 3" making 6.5psi, the new one is 2.625 and i figured should make 9.5psi, Am i wrong?

And there should be a another computer in the tote i left at your place..



:crazy: All else equal...
Your new setup is arguably more efficient that its former...think in terms of flow as oppose to boost pressure



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby Slinky » Thu May 01, 2014 5:21 pm

What do you mean by "more efficient" nocutt?
And what would your prediction be for psi with the new pulley and internal upgrades be?
And also what psi should I expect to lose effirncy at with my current mods?

And Jon the aftercooler box being so small it will only see around .5-1psi drop vs a big intercooler which would have a 1-3psi drop


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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby 1988GTU » Thu May 01, 2014 5:48 pm

psi doesnt equate more power. PSI only tells you of the flow restriction(s)


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Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu May 01, 2014 10:33 pm

Well after I found a miss matched plug on the map sensor it fired right up... Once I saw the map reading 197kpa I knew something was wrong it should be at 98 with the key on.

Gotta get the exhaust aligned and a few other details. It was throwing a 0339 crank position sensor code so I need to check over the crank sensor and wiring.



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby nocutt » Thu May 01, 2014 11:58 pm

Slinky wrote:What do you mean by "more efficient" nocutt?
And what would your prediction be for psi with the new pulley and internal upgrades be?
And also what psi should I expect to lose effirncy at with my current mods?

And Jon the aftercooler box being so small it will only see around .5-1psi drop vs a big intercooler which would have a 1-3psi drop


Well color me purple...I just lost my long winded post!

Anywayz 199GTU hit the nail on its head...
my point was that, your current setup may in fact be more improved (efficient) than the former...in which case everything else held equal... you should get less boost...

LOl oh I wish I could predict, there are simply too many variables; bench racing sucks :crazy: but seriously if you cared to build a boost curve just for s___ts & giggles, you can take impeller speed (including maximum flow) to look at what the air delivery would look like at various points. Although it would be more convenient if you also knew your v/e at various points in the powerband.

Lose efficiency? you mean with the compressor? you have to remember the compressor in theory is a low 8XX cfm wheel...that is about 55-60lb/min of flow. You will be no where near this territory IMo (with the current setup) so long as you can stay within its optimal operating range...if I am understanding the question right?!?!

NB: Get rid of psi as a measuring stick...



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby Slinky » Fri May 02, 2014 9:03 am

Yeah I understand, I have a lot to learn


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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby Slinky » Sat May 03, 2014 8:36 am

MOARRRRRRR pix Jon!

Or even a vid :)


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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby MY91GT(Z) » Sat May 03, 2014 11:00 am

Are u going to drive or tow the car home tyler??



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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby Slinky » Sun May 04, 2014 1:45 pm

MY91GT(Z) wrote:Are u going to drive or tow the car home tyler??


Ask Jon about that one :wink:


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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon May 05, 2014 8:49 am

Seeing how Tyler drove all the way to me with the car in tow I only though it to be fair for me to drive it all the way back to him... :) First road trip...

I have a few more pics but no videos yet... I've been trying to get it running to see what other issues there are and being a one man show holding a camera to video a run period where I'm trying to troubleshoot something or get a code to come up is the last thing on my mind.

To sum up the running issues I had, The MAP you guys know about...

His first mixup...

Image

Fixed that and it fired up... BUT it was still not running right... I had swapped in one of my old ICM's and coils and with that setup it seemed to be misfiring because it just didn't sound right... SO I pulled that setup off and put his stuff back on, also thinking that may be in correlation with the crank sensor code. It ran much smoother with that swapped, BUT I was then was greeted with the 0339 crank sensor error again... Checked over all the 7x wiring and swapped that sensor back and forth just to be certain that wasn't causing it... Check the harmonic balancer tone ring and that looked fine, pulled the timing cover sensor and ohm'd it in comparison to an old stock one... Didn't Ohm the same so I picked up a new one, Compared that with the one pulled and they were identical so I didn't swap it. Went to put my old GM one in there and that's when I found it........

Tyler made an extension wire for his harness to get to the sensor plug....... Great in theory... BUT DON'T CRIMP WIRES!!!!!!!!

Image

Fixed the right way

Image

After I got that sorted it started way better, but still found a coolant leak that I needed to fix... When he got this intake that cross pipe was removed, It's a pressed in pipe and when I went to install it, it slipped right in... so I used silicone hoping that would seal it... no dice. SO per request Tyler said just JB-Weld it in place. Did that yesterday and let it dry all day. Also filled the aftercooler setup talk about a PAIN IN THE ARSE to get the bubbles out of that thing.

Oh and Tyler's response to all my TXT's about his wiring problems... "this is why your doing it and not me!" LOL

Image

Also to add to that we needed to re-design his PCV setup. He had both valve cover ports going to a catch can and then to the plenum so it was pulling a VAC on the crankcase... Now this is not a bad thing if the motor is built for it but the gaskets used were not installed with the intentions to work like that... Second issue is the rear valve cover port is NOT baffled like the front one is to prevent oil consumption... this is his catch can after a short period of running...

Image

SO now we are going to run the rear valve cover line to the intake in front of the SC but behind the MAF as well as the front line will go directly to the catch can and into the intake... this will give the PCV system a source of air to pull through the crankcase that will be metered as well as filtered.

New fitting welded into the pipe

Image

And how the engine sits now, waiting for some line to come in to finish that, Once this is done I should be able to get a running video of the car.

Image

Image

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Re: Tylers (aka Slinkys) Build

Postby themixer » Mon May 05, 2014 9:48 am

this car should make fun sounds




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