Exhauts manifold modifications, parts/stuff?

[Beretta1234567]

Yah, I should probably stick with putting it on the manifold. lol

I rather not buy an oil pump and risk that failing.

[Beretta1234567]

I got another brilliant idea. Adapter plate then bolt this sucker on!
I can sacrifice one of the 3 spare 3.1L plenums and make it work. Then I'd just have to figure out what to do with the engine hood being in the way.

Supercharger

EDIT:
What I mean is I can totally take the intake plenum of the 3.1L, then cut off the throttle intake, weld it shut and clean like on its other side.
Then cut an inlet opening on the top after leveling a surface that will seal with the supercharger.
Then drill holes where needed, thread them, and bolt together.
All while making sure the belt lines up with its pulley.
Considering where it might end up, I can probably remove the Power steering and then install an idler pulley to wrap the belt around the supercharger.
Install an electric pump for steering, then figure out what I should do with my engine hood last.
Man, I'd hate to cut a good engine hood...

[Rettax3]

I got another brilliant idea. Adapter plate then bolt this sucker on!
I can sacrifice one of the 3 spare 3.1L plenums and make it work. Then I'd just have to figure out what to do with the engine hood being in the way.
EDIT:
What I mean is I can totally take the intake plenum of the 3.1L, then cut off the throttle intake, weld it shut and clean like on its other side.
Then cut an inlet opening on the top after leveling a surface that will seal with the supercharger.
Then drill holes where needed, thread them, and bolt together.
All while making sure the belt lines up with its pulley.
Considering where it might end up, I can probably remove the Power steering and then install an idler pulley to wrap the belt around the supercharger.
Install an electric pump for steering, then figure out what I should do with my engine hood last.
Man, I'd hate to cut a good engine hood...

Yep, very do-able, in fact, it has been done. I don't remember the guy's name, but IIRC, his Beretta was black. Might have been a 3x00, or it might have been a MPFI V-6, I don't remember, and he had a hood-scoop covering that M90 monster, and it worked fine, but it looked ugly -sorry.
You would still have ECM tuning, fuel injectors, FPR, and possibly the fuel pump to worry about, as well as a 2-Bar MAP, if you really want to do it right.

I'm planning on possibly doing the same thing on my Fiero GT, already updated with a 3x00 from a W-Body Monte, just because it is so much simpler than a turbo, and the exhaust mods are all done and installed for the 3x00. But, the Fiero has the engine in the back, and I don't really care if I have to bulge-up the engine cover to make the M90 fit... It might even look good, maybe.
Edit: You wouldn't even need to worry about welding-up the 3.1 manifold's TB inlet -just make a block-off plate and bolt it on. It won't be in the way or anything...

[Z26_T]

His name on here is mcgavinz26. If you search his name you might find some of his photos and such. He parted everything out a couple years ago. He wanted something that people would respect more. I think his plans were to go to a Fiero platform, but he was using a 3x00. For his to fit, he cut a hole in the hood that fit the supercharger. You will likely need to do the same thing unless you bubble it somehow. I'm not sure how much lower the mpfi sits vs the 3x00, but I hit my hood after raising my plenum 1 inch.

[Rettax3]

Z26_T, I'm sorry to thread-jack a little here, but since we are talking about turbos and such, it shouldn't be too out of place... On my recently LG5-powered '90 'Retta, I've dropped in a 3400 block with a modified and ported 3.1 turbo (LG5) top-end (I can't say it is a 3400 anymore, so I refer to it as a 3.4). I've upgraded the turbo from the tiny T-25 to a 60 trim Garrett T-4. Since you also have a 60 trim, I was wondering how your turbo-lag is, and what boost you have dialed-in. Also, do you know what your compression ratio is? I know your engine is a 3400/3500 hybrid, but what is your engine's displacement?

I'm writing a build-thread on the car, hopefully I'll have it posted shortly, but I haven't gotten the engine past the break-in period I've set for it, and my CR is pretty high for a boosted engine, so I'm only running a few PSI of boost right now.

[Z26_T]

Well, since it is still a stock 3400 bottom end (bore/stroke) with 3500 heads it has the displacement of a 3400. The reason to put 3500 heads on a 3400 is because #1 stock 3500 heads flow better than most ported 3400 heads and #2 it drops the compression down to about 9.3:1. My 3500 heads are ported and I milled them down slightly before installing them but I imagine I'm still right around 9.3:1 verse the stock 9.5:1
My turbo a hybrid T3T4, I'm not sure if yours is or not. Since it's a hybrid, the exhaust housing is much smaller than the standard T4 housing. So I spool much faster. I am using headers with a turbo cam, so my turbo begins spooling around 1500 with full boost around 2000. I currently have a 6psi spring in the external wastegate for the street, but have a 14 psi spring for the track. When I first built the engine I was pushing about 12 psi (wastegate wasn't dialed in correctly) but it held together just great.
I don't know much about the mpfi intakes, but I know the small port 3100 intakes generate a lot of torque. There is an individual on 60degreev6 that is (according to his MAF calculations) pushing about 400 lb/ft of torque with a 3400 bottom end and 3100 small port intakes. I believe the mfpi intakes are also great for torque.

[Rettax3]

Well, since it is still a stock 3400 bottom end (bore/stroke) with 3500 heads it has the displacement of a 3400. The reason to put 3500 heads on a 3400 is because #1 stock 3500 heads flow better than most ported 3400 heads and #2 it drops the compression down to about 9.3:1. My 3500 heads are ported and I milled them down slightly before installing them but I imagine I'm still right around 9.3:1 verse the stock 9.5:1
My turbo a hybrid T3T4, I'm not sure if yours is or not. Since it's a hybrid, the exhaust housing is much smaller than the standard T4 housing. So I spool much faster. I am using headers with a turbo cam, so my turbo begins spooling around 1500 with full boost around 2000. I currently have a 6psi spring in the external wastegate for the street, but have a 14 psi spring for the track. When I first built the engine I was pushing about 12 psi (wastegate wasn't dialed in correctly) but it held together just great.
I don't know much about the mpfi intakes, but I know the small port 3100 intakes generate a lot of torque. There is an individual on 60degreev6 that is (according to his MAF calculations) pushing about 400 lb/ft of torque with a 3400 bottom end and 3100 small port intakes. I believe the mfpi intakes are also great for torque.

They are. I was pretty big into the motorcycle scene for a while, these are machines that have been cranking out 2-3 HP per cubic inch, normally aspirated and in totally stock form, for several decades now. But, high-end HP is often a trade-off for low-end and mid-range torque. Smaller intakes (and carbs) yield higher intake air-flow speeds at lower RPMs, giving greater turbulence inside the combustion-chamber and therefore greater efficiency and power. My old Kawasaki Z-1 (a 1015cc engine that was originally electronically fuel-injected (in 1980!) and later retrofitted with small-bore Mikuni flat-slide carbs) was so torquey that it actually snapped the drive-chain the last time I had it out. My '01 ZX-11 on the other hand, came equipped with four 40mm carbs (which are huge considering that each carb feeds a cylinder about the size of a Coke-can in displacement), and was known for over 130 WHP, a 75% increase over the Z-1 I believe, but it still wasn't hugely torquier.

I don't have a problem taking the criticism from some people that the MPFI intakes, despite porting, do not flow very well compared to the 3x00 series, I would still choose this setup for this car again. With forced induction, it doesn't make as much difference for street-use, and the smaller ports help the engine to pull harder until the turbo spools-up. Mine is a straight T-4, BTW, so I might expect a significantly greater lag than you have, I guess. I am having a hard time judging, partly because I have the waste-gate set so softly, partly because I haven't gotten the car out where I can get her up to speed for a while, and she has so much torque that I cannot get traction in lower gears, so I cannot even spool-up anyway. Last summer, I had the car out on the highway, towing another car, and I swear it pulls every bit as hard as my 3800 SC GTU does, and set only for a few PSI of boost right now at that. I am also running the stock 3400 cam, I don't see me putting out the money for an upgrade.

I find it entertaining how opposite our builds are, yet so similar. Where did you get your headers from? I couldn't find any for a turbo...

[Z26_T]

Being a straight T4 I couldn't even guess how much lag would be there.. Hopefully it won’t be too late in the power band. Though with it being later for you, it is likely beneficial due to the traction issues you already face. I cannot get mine to hook up either, though I had that issue before the turbo. What size is the exhaust turbine? If the lag really becomes an issue later on, I don't see why you couldn't replace the exhaust housing with a T3 housing, though you would have to re-balance your compressor wheel to work with the T3 turbine and possibly replace the center section. I've really only played with T3T4s, and a couple HX35 holsets so I cannot tell you for sure if a the center section is different on a T4.

I've considered going to a small port manifold set-up, but then I would have to switch back to 3400 or 3100 heads. I would imagine that the loss in volume would be significant enough to be not worth the increased velocity. Though for your set-up I imagine it is perfect. I always felt that my stock 3100 would start to die around 4500, but when I went to a 3400 it was still pulling hard at 5500.

I pieced my set-up together from people who parted out their builds, and stuff I accumulated from my first turbo attempt back in high school. The headers were custom built by ForcedFirebird from the 60* forum. The crossover and downpipe I had to fabricate this summer to work with my transmission. Most of my turbo and engine upgrades are from Loner666s Corsica. Nearly everything had to be refurbished after purchasing though. I was barely able to get the headers to bolt up to the head, even with using manifold spreaders.

[Rettax3]

My turbine-side is a huge .81. Ordinarily, I would prefer a smaller turbo that spools quickly to provide more mid-range punch, even at the expense of higher RPM performance, and I almost hybrided this T-4 with a T-3 I had, but the exhaust side was so restrictive on the T-3, that I decided against it. The T-3 would have also given me liquid cooling, and an internal waste-gate, which would have simplified the exhaust-system build and added significant lifespan to the turbo, but sitting up on top the way it is with the NACA scoop I have in the hood, it should get plenty of cooling air. I can always put the compressor-side onto the T-3 later if this one actually wears out... With the Compression Ratio at 9.94:1 (according to 60 degree V-6's CR calculator) and the already strong low-end and mid-range of my engine, I'm willing to keep boost out of the engine at lower RPMs (when detonation is more likely) and utilize the turbo for higher-end boost on this build, and see how it goes. I'm also willing to experiment a little.

[Beretta1234567]

Yah i saw the cut engine hood beretta photo somewhere. i also seen a car with a hood scoop.
that is what gave me the idea.

I'm still deciding what will be most practical for my summer project. I was told that if I will go this far, I am better off getting the entire front carnage from a newer supercharged engine and modifying everything to fit.
Then again, i saw a nice 2.4L turbo at the auto show. I believe it was in the Malibu. Maybe i might consider that. I also have poor mileage. Thats not fun.

I'm okay if anyone wants to hijack this thread for the topic. Helps me better chose my choice.

[Rettax3]

I have both Supercharged and Turbocharged engines, and if you are concerned about gas-mileage, turbos are better, all else being equal. Turbos actually reclaim some of the energy thrown away into the exhaust, while superchargers take power away from the engine to run themselves. Interestingly enough, take the belt off the supercharger and run the engine, and the vacuum-draw through the SC actually spins it, so it is putting a restriction on the intake side, but turbos are putting a restriction on the exhaust side AND the intake side, but most fuel consumption is not at idle or very low manifold pressures, so turbos add efficiency when you need it more.

My Yellow Indy has a newer but still stock 3.1 MPFI, currently with a three-speed auto TH125, and is getting over 30 MPG when driven nicely. My last tank-full was around 31 MPG average, and according to the MPG gauge in the digi-dash, I am at over 37 MPG (I know it won't stay that high for long though) so far on the current tank, which was almost exclusively country highway and some back-roads. But my turbo 2.4 (TwinCam LD9 though, not the 2.4 EcoTech engine you were probably looking at) also gets ~30 MPG when driven 'politely'. My 3800 GTU gets in the twenties for MPG, polite or not, so I can't say I am a fan of fueling that car up.

Besides, turbos are more fun because they are more complex, and they sound better. Go turbo on your 3.1!

[Beretta1234567]

I have both Supercharged and Turbocharged engines, and if you are concerned about gas-mileage, turbos are better, all else being equal. Turbos actually reclaim some of the energy thrown away into the exhaust, while superchargers take power away from the engine to run themselves. Interestingly enough, take the belt off the supercharger and run the engine, and the vacuum-draw through the SC actually spins it, so it is putting a restriction on the intake side, but turbos are putting a restriction on the exhaust side AND the intake side, but most fuel consumption is not at idle or very low manifold pressures, so turbos add efficiency when you need it more.

My Yellow Indy has a newer but still stock 3.1 MPFI, currently with a three-speed auto TH125, and is getting over 30 MPG when driven nicely. My last tank-full was around 31 MPG average, and according to the MPG gauge in the digi-dash, I am at over 37 MPG (I know it won't stay that high for long though) so far on the current tank, which was almost exclusively country highway and some back-roads. But my turbo 2.4 (TwinCam LD9 though, not the 2.4 EcoTech engine you were probably looking at) also gets ~30 MPG when driven 'politely'. My 3800 GTU gets in the twenties for MPG, polite or not, so I can't say I am a fan of fueling that car up.

Besides, turbos are more fun because they are more complex, and they sound better. Go turbo on your 3.1!

I'm currently finding better options. Looks like i might stick with the turbo as opposed to a SC.
I am passing a prebent pipe and I am looking for pipe i can buy and cut up so I can make a custom crossover pipe so I do no have to change as much.
I realized that the turbo itself would be more effective spinning the other way as I could make it fit better.
But finding a turbo that spins in a different direction is a bit of a pain. Especially while trying to find it at a low price while still keeping the same quality.

I'm still looking over different options as to which ones would fit better, I want to see if I can get it all in there without having to move anything or modify anything else. More like a personal achievement thing. I have a lot of old manifold pipes and crossover pipes laying around, i might cut them up and clean them for my friend to weld.
I want to get the pipe done first before I buy the turbo, this way i know i can actually use it sooner within its warranty period, because i want to be able to make sure it works is my primary concern.