2.3L or 2.8L ?

[Money pit Beretta]

You are not going to be able to use the RWD engines. Your best bet is the FWD 3400, but you will need a custom upper engine mount(because the car is older, newer Berettas have that mount already).
There really is not much that can be done to the 2.3L. Really it is down to finding W41 parts(head and cams). There is a guy here in the US that makes a header for them. Quads are great, but once they start having problems it never seems to end. Head gaskets can be trouble and if the water pump goes it will dump coolant into the oil pan.

[Money pit Beretta]

Yes you can find most parts for the 2.3L on Rock Auto or other sites.
There is a guy here in the US that makes the custom mount, but he is on the V6Z24 site. Not sure if it has to be welded in. The stock one just bolts in the newer cars.
WOT-Tech sells a 3400 swap chip for 2.8/3.1L. As for the mount the later 3.1's had it(like 91-92?). After that it was all 3100's.

http://60degreev6.com/PDF/1995_Pontiac_ ... on_2.0.pdf
That should cover most questions.

[whiteretta]

The 2.3 is more a performance engine, where the 2.8 is not. The 2.8 is still a fun engine in these cars, and can take much, much more abuse than the 2.3 can.

[weba]

You will only find 2.3 on a GTZ, what is actually performance oriented version of the car, while 2.8 would be more of 'daily driver'. Just make sure you won't buy a car with automatic trans.

The V6 ones are more reliable and cheaper to maintain than Quad, but the high revving oddity of the Quad is very rewarding you know how to take care of it (meaning that you understand the basics of engine mechanics and more)

All usual replacement parts are available at rockauto.com, and some originals can be found from vpartsinc.com once you know the part number.

Basically the stock V6 ones are happy under 4.5k rpm, while Quad needs to be over 4.5k to go fast, it's needs a a completely different approach. You can definitely build a fast Quad but gathering parts can be little more challenging, see quad4forums.com for most information.

If you daily drive your car, I'd recommend V6 to starting point. Quad is better suited for track\spirited driving

Also, you are really buying a 20+ year old car, getting more power is most likely not first on the list since there will be lot of issues to take care of...

[Koots]

^Super Solid Advice, listen and absorb it all!

I personally enjoy working with/on a high maintenance engine, but I don't always have time for that...but I can do all the work myself. If you have to pay for this maintenance, it's not worth it at all.

The V6 is definitely the better all around option. The only downside is that there is barely enough room to work on the side of the engine closest to the firewall.

[DanteGTZ]

The only people scared of Quads are those that have never truly worked on them. I've torn down like 4-5 of them now and there really isn't anything complicated about them. Put head studs in, good gaskets, keep an eye on coolant level, temperature and oil pressure and you're good to go - After a few years, they'll need a timing chain - BIG DEAL. I live the 5spd V6s too but if I had to choose between WORKING ON one or the other, I'd probably still pick the Quad.

They're easy.

[Asylum]

OK, this from a guy who had the VERY FIRST 3500 Beretta when everyone said it couldn't be done.
And I won a ton of money racing a 3.1.
I have made it very clear, I'm NOT a Quad fan, even though I own one of the nicest ones around.
The Quad is a HOOT and a lot of fun.
They are not the maintenance headache everyone wants to suggest.
In fact I have a new respect for this little bugger of late.
Just take care of it, change the damn oil and you will be happy!
Just my .02

[Rettax3]

I would say all else being equal, go with the 2.8. Both cars you are looking at are five-speed, so you are all right there. The 2.8 will (again, all else being equal) be less finicky, require slightly less attention, and is slightly less likely to have a cataclysmic failure if the maintenance does get away from you. They are easier to upgrade, and although the transmissions between those two engines are essentially the same internally, the bell-housings are different, and the 2.8 has many more interchangeable engines that will bolt onto it, whereas the Quad only has one other block that will bolt directly in place (the lower powered 2.4 Twin Cam 'LD9' engine). That said, the GTZ that the Quad came in is a sportier car, typically has better suspension (unless the 2.8 car you are looking at is a Z51-equipped GT, look at the RPO codes on the sticker in the trunk on the spare-tire cover), has nicer seats, and is usually worth more, so all else isn't necessarily equal. The Quad can also get better fuel-mileage, if driven nicely.

For interchangeability, the 3.1 MPFI bolts on, but isn't really much of an upgrade, 3100 SFI isn't too hard to adapt, except for the front mount, dito for the 3400, 3500 will go in, 3800 and 3800SC (I have one of those in a car that was a 2.8 ) but requires a bit more fabrication, even a 3900 should go in with some work (I can't say for certain, though), and the 3.4 Twin Dual Cam 24-valve engine will also bolt in, but will be fairly difficult to fit into the car (no one has actually done it, to my knowledge, and that engine uses a timing belt and earlier versions also require partial engine disassembly just to change the rear spark plugs). The 2.8s are also fairly cheap to turbo-charge, whereas the Quads have a higher compression-ratio which tends to make forced induction costly to make reliable.

BTW, I also have made some of the front-mounts for adapting the 3X00 SFI engines into the older Berettas, and I am willing to make more if there is a demand for them...

(Mark 'II') -currently installed in my '90 turbo 'Retta. Industrial-duty 3" angle steel, 1/4" thick. Total over-kill...

(Mark 'III') -currently being used as a template. A lot stronger than the frame of the car it bolts to...

(Mark 'III') -currently being used as a template. A lot stronger than the frame of the car it bolts to...

(Mark 'IV') -already sold. Heavy-duty build compared to the Mark 'III'.

(Mark 'IV') -already sold. Heavy-duty build compared to the Mark 'III'.

These are not as complex as the ones sold on the other site, and they are able to accept the older-style A/C bracket.

Any pictures of the prospective cars?

[1988GTU]

The V6's are more abuse friendly when they are kept up on maintenance. The Q4 is a rewarding engine when kept up and not ragged on with every turn of the key, which is hard NOT to do for most as they are attached to manual trans in all Beretta's and require higher RPM's to merge on the interstate.

If you are not relying on the car 100% and do not mind searching for parts online, the quad 4 is a probable choice.

If you want to be able to obtain parts at a local chain parts store and have the ability for a lawn mower mechanic to fix the mechanics of the engine, then stay with the 60*V6's.

With any option you go with, I suggest 89+ manual trans just for ease of working on the car and the ability to handle power over the auto in stock form. Just be sure the trans can row thru all forward gears at mid-high rpm's with out grinding and that reverse works. Check the fluid for brass or heavy grit feeling.

I am not a fan of the 87-88 manual trans slave setup, only because its not easy finding parts for. I have 3 sets last I checked, and it took 5 parts cars to make that happen.

[Koots]

a Quad 4 with a healthy stock flow/pressure pump, flat head/block, MLS headgasket, headstuds and a strong valvetrain should perform great and live longer than anyone would expect. It seems controlling the oiling and valvetrain at 6500RPM plus seems to be the big killer, but I've never owned one, I just read a lot

[Money pit Beretta]

Thanks for the infos

I'm still asking myself if I buy this car.
It will need a lot of money, because such 20 years old cars are always in bad shape here.
I have already spent a lot of hard money with the dodge shadows.

I can understand that. It almost has to be a labor of love. If not you may grow to hate it after a short amount of time. Getting parts where you are must be crazy though. It's not all that easy here in the US for some things.
Still, in France it has to be a rare car that almost no one has.

[Koots]

Whoa France is not the usual place to hear about Beretta's, but I would have said the same about Finland too, before I noticed Weba posting on the forums LOL