3800 S.C Beretta swap

[KingBroil]

Hi all,
As requested, I will use this topic to share information on a 3800 S.C swap in a Beretta Z-26 1955 (L-Body I think?)
First of all, I'm not a professionnal mechanic. I have done my share of mechanical work, and even dismanteled my original 3100 engine all the way to the lifters and back together, only to find that I had a weird plastic rack left at the end that I didn't know where it it was supposed to go. I soon found that it was that piece that keep the lifters alligned.... yeah, I had to do it all again So most of the mechanical knoledge I have, I learned the hard way. Just be patient if I don't explain things right the first time. Also, I am french speaking so my english is not the best.....I know!, I know!, all this doesn't leaves me a lot of qualities

As I said in another topic, I am away from home for work. I don't have a lot of time to spare and I do not have the car with me. That means that I cannot post pictures or look at things on the car for another 2 weeks. Meanwhile, I can start explaining \introducing the swaping.

Be aware that I didn't perform the swap myself. It is a mechanic from Thetford Mines, Canada that did it, but I am well aware of how he did it and what are the major problems that he encountered. Overall, the project turned out to be a lot easier than we first thought. Now the car is running w\o major issues and a LOT of power for a Beretta! All I can say is that those Mustangs do not shrink in my front view anymore

I'll try to add a new post every night, see yall!

[heavywoody]

Interesting to hear; way back in the day on the old BNet, there was information for a place in Canada that swapped 3800SC engines into our cars. I wonder if there is any correlation.

From what I can see of your posts, you have no need to worry about the French/English language difference. Your posts are easier to read than a lot of the people that post on here! Punctuation, exceptional grammar for someone that uses French as their primary language, hell I'm impressed!

Info from the FAQ on the main page:

#4 WHAT’S THE INFORMATION FOR GETTING A 3800SC INSTALLED IN MY CAR?

-Some time somebody posted a message where someone swapped a 3800 into their Cavalier. They also posted the address/phone number of the company. This company is Racetech, and it’s located in Toronto. Here’s the information: The 3800 Series engine will fit our Berettas WITHOUT any body modifications. Hood will not need to be changed, neither fender, frames, nor anything else. That stays the same. The engine compartment needs no modifications. For those of you with 5-speed manual transmissions, those can be reused. Racetech bolts them in for you. What you need is aluminum flywheel, and a performance clutch, which all comes in the kit from Racetech. What you need to provide yourself is the engine, and a computer. The costs for these vary, as you know, depending on the engine, mileage, and a few other factors. 3800 Series II engine with a computer will run about $2200 to $3000 Canadian dollars (or, $1500 – $2000 US) here, in Canada from yards here. Racetech does everything else – wiring harness, computer hook up, engine installation, provide brackets, labor everything you need to have done. They test every aspect of the new car to make sure everything is working properly. Now, as for the price. The price is $6,000 Canadian dollars. It’s $4,000 in US. No hidden costs, other than that you have to provide your own engine/computer.This project takes 6-8 weeks, and they recommend that you do it during the winter, because winter is the time you will miss you car the least The woman I was speaking to is Miriam, you might want to contact her. It’s either her, or Joe. Here’s the phone number: 1-416-747-5728

[3X00-Modified]

Maybe we can entice you to get the thing dynoed... I think there was only one other 3800 SC car dynoed and I have no idea where the numbers are, but I remember vids of the front mount bending the radiator support backwards as he did his pull... Very poor engine mounting setup in that car. Other than that I know of the Lemon Yellow 3800 swap, cant remember if thats n/a or SC, then there is Roln with his GTZ.... never really got a finished result from him, its all done to my knowledge, but no numbers to show the benefits of doing the swap, no dyno, no 1/4mile. Also haven't heard from him in a while, Bstuff died and he refuses to post here because we are Nazi's...

There was also one other guy on Bstuff that had a 3800 SC I think and did full length individual runners for every cylinder on his exhaust, 6 exits under the car or at the rear, I cant remember, but it was somewhat of a thrown together job, never really got many photos or detail on the work done. I'm sure there are a few others that we don't know about or that I've forgotten, but the work necessary is what scares most off... and the need for mount fabrication.

I would like to do a 3800 SC in a car (SC's are cool), but I'm just not a fan of those motors and I would much rather work with the 3400/3500 combo or straight 3500... I haven't had to cut or weld anything into my car to get it into the 12's and I'm very proud of that deal, plus it's very reliable because not much has changed mounting and operating wise. I may push for a 4t65e some day but that still shouldn't require any modifications.

I think the biggest hurdle that most don't want to deal with is the fact that you need a new engine computer setup so that means re-wiring the engine bay harness.

Looking forward to more info and some pics.

[woody90gtz]

I've always thought one of these would be cool. Although, is the myth about pulling the engine to change spark plugs true?

[scd88ga]

I've always thought one of these would be cool. Although, is the myth about pulling the engine to change spark plugs true?

No, it's not true at all! If anyone has questions on the Supercharged 3800 swap, just ask, I've done it.

[KingBroil]

I can confirm that no modifications to the frame was made on my car. It is a tight fit for sure, but it fits like... a tight glove I would say!

We had to relocate the cooling fan on the other side of the radiator. My mechanic had to build at least one engine mount, I'll have to confirm for the other mounts. We had a big issue with the oil filter location. We have tried like 3 or 4 different filter mount to find that one from a Malibu would fit just right.

One of the coolant hose that conect to the expansion tank was a bit of a challenge too. We saw no other way than to make it go inside the path of the accessory belt. At first, the hose touched the belt when torking the engine and started to wear the hose, but one tie-rap later, the problem was solved... at least until I find a better solution.

We kept the original tranny with axle which is good because I didn't want to mess with those things! Apparently, the tranny fit without any modification on the 3800 S.C. (L67) Right here is a problem with the car: The transmission respond weardly sometimes, as if it didn't know in which gear it should be. I know that this transmission was designed for a 3100 so it is probably why, but there may be an electronic issue as well, I have no clue. I wish to throw in a manual transmission as a future project, if possible.

Other than that, we reinforced the lower part of the rad support with a 1\4 inch metal plate. We didn't install the two engine mounts on top of the rad support, and it seem to do just fine without those. We also modified the back exhaust manifold to give it thre right angle to connect with the exhaust system.

That's about everything we had to do to physically fit the "Fireball" into that bay. For the spark plugs, if you have the right tools, you dont have to pull the engine, just like on those Trans Sport vans if I remember... Will write about the rest of the swap next time.

Cheers!

[KingBroil]

3X00-Modified:
I'm looking forward to try it on the Dyno! The swap was done only last winter and to make a long story short, I didn't have a lot of money to put on this so the car works fine but the job was done quickly and I do not fully trust it's reliability on mid-long term. I "try" to be gentle on it until I double-check everything myself. It's mostly a matter of better securing of all the wires, hoses paths, cables attachements. (the accelerator cable detached by itself from the "throttle body" once, not fun...) Things like that makes me want to do an overall check on the job!

So far, it hasn't stop me from "smoking" a VW VR6 and trying some Stangs (was really tight between 0-100 km\h, but you guess the rest)
So I will probably Dyno my car first thing next summer

KB

[ErichZ26]

Racetech was the place that did these with no so good mounting.

I found the photo's from Matt's 1992 base recently with L67 + built 3T40. He did a good job pretty much without using any other resources like Kingbroil. It was built without connecting to the soft front end. He built mounts to the cradle and unibody frame and built it with isolated mounts. We street raced it plenty in 2002. I spent many Friday and Saturday nights in Chicago street racing it. When people saw the automatic shifter they were not intimidated. The car was full of surprise held up and came out ahead. He did dynoed it and track race it later on...but lost interest and couldn't get it past Illinois emmisions(which are non-existant) Had the emmision laws changed earlier i bet he would still have the car. The stock PCM ran in limp mode originally and i believe he got a tune.

AND Lets not forget things.

Don't forget Nocutt's "turbo" 3.8. I thought it was a Series III in the end. This car and engine install was overinstalled and well done..just never seen my many or any other members in person. Nocutt still in Cali?

Andy's Lemonjuice was a series 1 n/a using the full cradle of the H body donor. Where are you Andy?

There was also the dual engines monster red GTU? I thought that was twin 3800's. (NO presence on forums)

The beast from Indiana...as liljon mentioned. It was at a couple of bfests. What happened to Keith?

Roln's GTZ took a long time to get done, but since he paid people to do it he was never a good person to ask for information on the project which made it tough. Not sure what his beef if...we never made him wear a pink triangle..I might get him a black one though (in reference to Lil jon's Nazi comment)


Kingbroil...the shift points in the 4t60e are different and probably are messing with the stock trans gear ratio's. I am familar with the oil filter problem. Fiero's ahve this too. Get a relocator OR try a minivan 3800 oil adapter.

This swap has not happened as much as it would have...but the 3400/3500 stuff really picked up where no one thought performance and speed were going to happen and plenty of cheap motors came up. Prior to about 2002 many wanted the 3800 swaps which were 7 years into the Series II which were doing well in the performance scene with bolt on's.

Good job on getting the basics done. There are tons of resources out there on Fiero forums, W body sites, and there was a L67 swap site.

[ErichZ26]

Forgot one...the Grand National Turbo....early 3.8 swap Beretta.

[mickaz]

I've always thought one of these would be cool. Although, is the myth about pulling the engine to change spark plugs true?

in a cavalier the 3800sc sits lower and the bank angle is wider do it is easier to change spark plugs then a 3x00.

[Kris GTwhat?]

im still waiting on pics..

[3X00-Modified]

As I said in another topic, I am away from home for work. I don't have a lot of time to spare and I do not have the car with me. That means that I cannot post pictures or look at things on the car for another 2 weeks. Meanwhile, I can start explaining \introducing the swaping.

Read the initial post and you can figure out why...

Don't expect pics till the 25th or the 28th depending on when he will be home.

[Kris GTwhat?]

Ooh duh. 3800 swaps just make me excited that's all. Lol.