New Meat: Checking In

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:56 pm

Just dropping in to say Hello...from Kansas...and recently bought a $200.00 1988 Beretta GT with about 150,000 miles.

Since then, I've spent about $500.00 to renew rear axle (bearings, drums, shoes, wheel cylinders), muffler, belt, oil pump, oil-sender, with ye old sweat labor.

Good oil pressure now, and after checking one Rod/Main bearing, it appears 2.8 motor could run another 100,000.

Post by **heavywoody** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:08 am

Welcome aboard!

The V6's in these cars have a tendancy to last a good while as long as they are taken care of. The 2.8/3.1's are a little more reliable than the 3100 since they didn't have the intake manifold gasket failures like the 3100 did.

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 pm

QUOTEV6's in these cars have a tendancy to last a good while as long as they are taken care of.

From the pan side, it was clean, which suggests the oil was changed...from checking rod/main bearings, they also show the oil was changed.

I've heard of 3800 motors getting 400K...but on these engines (2.8/3.1), I would agree they can last a long time...remember, these Berettas weigh around 3,000 lbs...and have low wind drag...so, if the peddle is not stuck on the metal all the time, they should last a long time.

I did notice a few "plastic teeth" from the Cam Gear in the bottom of the pan...when I get the time, I'm going to replace the timing gears....what do you know about this aspect?

thx for welcome...

Post by **heavywoody** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:47 pm

If you're going to replace the timing gears, you might as well replace the timing chain and the tensioner (I think there is a tensioner on the Gen II V6's).

You can change them without removing the motor, but you'll have more room to work if you pull the engine.

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:27 pm

QUOTEtiming gears...You can change them without removing the motor, but you'll have more room to work if you pull the engine.

Coming from SBC experiences...in rear wheel vehicles...these "compacts" are PIAs.

I was going to order Shop Manual from Helms...but its only a reprint without electrical schematics...so I got a Haynes 1987 thru 1996 manual, and its a joke, the way they explain it...

But, my 1987 Olds Shop Manual appears to have the right stuff.

Since I removed the plastic inner-lower wheel splash guard next to crankshaft side, it appears it can be done...but I guess you have to take off alternator, power steering, water-pump to do the job.

Right now, I'm busy with farm chores (planting season), so I'll have to wait until its cold before I can do it.

Chazzman · Post by **Chazzman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:43 pm

(heavywoody @ Oct. 10 2007,18:47)QUOTEIf you're going to replace the timing gears, you might as well replace the timing chain and the tensioner (I think there is a tensioner on the Gen II V6's).

You can change them without removing the motor, but you'll have more room to work if you pull the engine.
There is no tensioner but there is a plastic Y-shapes guide that can wear over time. It's not a bad idea to replace that.

Welcome to the site.

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:10 pm

(Chazzman @ Oct. 16 2007,14:43)QUOTEThere is no tensioner (Timing Chain) but there is a plastic Y-shapes guide that can wear over time.
Well, since then:

1. R&R Rear Axle with bearings, shoes, cylinders, drums.

2. Pulled Oil Pan, Cleaned crud out, and installed New Oil Pump...oil pressure doubled now.

3. R&R Timing Set, New Water Pump, New Bearing in tensioner pulley.

4. New O2 Sensor, Changed Power Steering Oil, New Belt, New Air Filter, & two new tires.

Some $800 in parts, and plan to install new CV outer seals in the near future...maybe front wheel bearings also. And found out about the Speed Density Software

Question - Y-shapes guide - Actual function?

A previous owner had changed the timing chain some 50k miles ago, but he had not changed it, so I did along with timing set....it was wore down...btw, GM Denver had only 5 in stock when I ordered it.

Jeff P · Post by **Jeff P** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:28 am

It sounds like that car found itself a good owner. I haven't seen that Speed Density page since '98. It's good that it's still around - I actually think about that one every time I hear of an injector problem.

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:28 pm

(Jeff P @ Dec. 06 2007,02:28)QUOTE....Speed Density...
There is a sticker about it on left shock tower, inside hood, but many GM dealerships have tossed their older books to Vo-Tech Schools, etc., so getting the specifics is a tough task.

I have ordered the factory book on this topic, which only applied to 87-88 motors, but a mechanic not knowing about it will cost the owner some wasted bucks.

The MAF is suppose to be disconnected, but a scan tool still shows MAF working.

Thx for comments...

Jeff P · Post by **Jeff P** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:04 am

Hmm. I know the MAT part of the MAF assembly should still be working, but the three MAF wires should not be doing anything, though they may still have electrical supply to them. Let us know what you find in that book!

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:59 am

(Jeff P @ Dec. 13 2007,03:04)QUOTEHmm. I know the MAT part of the MAF assembly should still be working, but the three MAF wires should not be doing anything
The book did not give Service Campaigns, so no details here; its basically a "Driveability and Emissions Manual; Section 6E. It did point out that when using Tech-1 Scanner, to use 89 Beretta settings.

A local dealer kepts these older service campaigns...but time would be required to fetch this one. I didn't make the request.

Without checking, I thought there were only 4 wires going to MAF...two for temp sensor...two for MAF. The Snap-on tester showed both working. But, my digital dash's temp and MAT had different values...which is kind of strange.

Some say there is a Relay for the MAF, but its not shown in GM service manual...must be a different MAF in this 88 Beretta.

Jeff P · Post by **Jeff P** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:28 am

Yeah, I've got manuals (even GM) that show a MAF relay on the relay bank too, but like yours, my '88 doesn't have one. The MAF has one wire for power, one for ground, and one for the output signal. If I remember right, the MAF works like this: The computer heats up a thin wire on the MAF assembly, and the air passing around it works to cool it off. The computer maintains the temperature of the wire by adding more power. The amount of extra power required to keep the temperature the same tells the computer how much air is flowing past. Obviously colder air will cool the wire more than hot air, so the computer uses the MAT to measure the temperature of the air to compensate.

Regarding the difference in temperature between the MAT and the digital dash's outside temp sensor...The MAT is in the engine bay while the outside temp sensor is behind the front grille. I'm not sure when you took the readings, but maybe there really was a temperature difference?

1988GTU · Post by **1988GTU** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:54 am

Looks like the maf has 4 or 5 wires:

Jeff P · Post by **Jeff P** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:00 am

Yup, the MAF and MAT use the same plug since they're integrated, so there are five total pins.

88*Beretta · Post by **88*Beretta** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:20 pm

(Jeff P @ Dec. 17 2007,04:28)QUOTEYeah, I've got manuals (even GM) that show a MAF relay on the relay bank too..........while the outside temp sensor is behind the front grille.
Wouldn't have a means to see photo of a "MAF" relay?

Where abouts is outside temp sensor for Digital Dash?

I've been tinkering with Software based Scanner programs, mainly TunerPro and EFILive, and maybe by Friday, I might get EFLLive up/running, but this program costs some $180.00, where TunerPro, if you donate some $30.00.

EFL had wrong defintion file (corrupt) on their website for download, and within their software program. Its suppose to be for 88 Beretta, but I contacted them, and they sent me a corrected version, but I have not tried it out.

TurnerPro will take some time to get it going right....I have one of the files needed to make it go, but there is something else I need to make it go....the problem is that a good starter overview is missing...a How To, from the beginning.

On this forum, I have not seen much interest here, but you do need a laptop, and an ALDL Cable.

Btw, I checked my MAF, and it does have 5 wires...when I glanced at it, it looked like four wires.

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