Back to Back Datalogs of 3100 and 3400 on OBD 1.5

[snowblindburd]

How many miles is on the motor with the high KR?

~75,000 miles on my 3400 at this point.

[Barry]

Barry could be on to something. I know there are certain headers for LS1s that trigger the stock knock sensor, for example. Internal noise would be even more sensitive.

Yeah I heard of sloppy timing chains or a rod knock causing false knock on older gm engines like the 305 in my dads old 86 blazer. Any noise within a certain range of Hz would be counted as knock.

But I figure that GM should of perfected the system a little more by now to eliminate that issue.

What would unplugging the knock sensor do? Throw full KR? Or none at all? Just for a test...

[3X00-Modified]

Unplugging it would remove all knock detection and quite possibly just run on the good fuel spark table... although I'm not totally sure, it may revert to the bad fuel spark table to be safe... I did this when my 3100 was showing bad KR to see if thats why it felt like a lead sled... Once I unplugged it the car was back to life, but yes you could now physically HEAR the KR in my engine... so I threw 89 octane at it and it shut up... I never determined what was wrong because I swapped it out for the original 3400 that was in the car and I have yet to look into that motor to see what happened.

I know some say never to disconnect a KR sensor... I agree if your going to do WOT runs on a boosted motor, BUT if you want to see if the KR goes away meaning its detecting it and its not torque management pulling the timing, then you'll be just fine. KR on a N/A motor is not as devastating as on a boosted motor.

[IsaacHayes]

Even most car owners manuals say if you hear ping it's ok... The subaru we had and the ford tore-asses do it.

[IsaacHayes]

Ok, looking back at this stuff, I'm totally lost... LOL It's gonna take a while before I understand how to edit this stuff again. But it looks like you're using the byte 15 which is shifter position not shift solenoid position.. And it should be the in the Bits section not sensor data section. A lookup table is an idea, but you have 2 sensor values returning if solenoid a or b is on. Not sure how you'd combine both to report a value back..

I already had the latest TP. I'll try my def and yours and go through it on a desktop where I actually have a real keyboard and mouse and larger screen than this low resolution.

[IsaacHayes]

Ok using Wicked's def, I took a few data logs the other day with a WAI.

http://isaachayes.60degreev6.com/datalo ... on_hwy.csv
http://isaachayes.60degreev6.com/datalo ... riving.csv

2nd one is a bit long, its got all sorts of driving in it. Up large hills, hwy, in town, etc. Some hwy jaunts up large hills from stand still etc.

I need to get some time to re-do my def so it logs right. I never knew the def could mess with the program, since it works fine in real time, just not recording. I think I will split the code flags and sensor data into 2 defs, since you can't use both at the same time anyway. My def the TC slip looks fine. I might make a short one too for logging only for the important stuff. I need time to update my website and upload pics too. I need to do a bunch of little stuff to the car as well though so that happens first....

What do you all think of my BLMs?

Mods if you all don't know are: 3400 LIM, 3500 UIM, 65mm TB, 2.5" mandrel downpipe & other pipe, magnaflow metallic core cat (supports up to a 6.0L lol), ultra flo straight through muffler, and WAI K&N.

[3X00-Modified]

Going by what I have seen in the past with my logs and others... if you were to get a wideband on there you would see your WOT O2's are very low quite possibly 13.2:1 or so, at 933 on my narrow band its reading 12.8-12.5

[IsaacHayes]

So are you saying my car is low on FUEL at WOT, or the AFR is too low, meaning it's too rich at WOT ????

13.1-12.8 I've heard is good for WOT NA... So what are you saying?

[IsaacHayes]

One thing, Woody said his would stall out if floored on a cold start... Then when warm would roast the tires..

Mine is the exact opposite. Cold it will roast them, in fact leaving in a hurry in the mornings it is hard to get traction to pull out onto the road. It spins soooo easy even while rolling. But when warm it is very hard to get them to spin unless you just stomp it from a dead stop.

[woody90gtz]

Mine ran the best when the engine was cold, but it had to be after that ~30-sec interval where the computer starts to read from the sensors instead of the presets.

I'm waiting on an ALDL cable for mine so I can datalog it and find out why I am burning so much damn fuel.

[wicked-irocz]

I would say you could bump your fuel pressure 3-5 psi but you are awefully close to being right on fuel wise. Your running a bit lean, BLM's when cruising are the best things to look at in this scenario, but as long as your getting no spark retard in a full 1/4 mile pass you generally are rich enough or close enough to it where you will not pick up much power from lowering the A/F ratio.

Like I said though, bumping the pressure 3-5 psi wouldn't be a bad thing but it may not help ET wise.

[IsaacHayes]

Do you think swapping back to a 52 or even 56mm TB would help at all? Do you think having more air at part throttle due to the 65mm TB causes the BLM's to adjust for that, then when going WOT (which is based off of the learned BLM but doesn't adjust during WOT) it causes it to be off more than if it was with a smaller TB?

[woody90gtz]

Ok, so now I have my ALDL cable, TunerProRT, my laptop and my wideband. How do I log the Lambda = & - data from my wideband?

[wicked-irocz]

Do you think swapping back to a 52 or even 56mm TB would help at all? Do you think having more air at part throttle due to the 65mm TB causes the BLM's to adjust for that, then when going WOT (which is based off of the learned BLM but doesn't adjust during WOT) it causes it to be off more than if it was with a smaller TB?

You are funny. I have repeatedly said that BLM has no affect on WOT. I have logged it and widebanded it and it doesn't. Don't worry about it. And, the TB affecting the A/F readings on the computer? The computer has no care in the world what happens on the intake, its all about what the MAP reads. If you read 2Volts cruising with one TB you will read the same with any other TB cruising at the same speed.

Swapping to a 44mm would help because it would offset your other mods and make your engine make about the same power as stock.

Woody, hook it up, find the right file or make your own, select that file and hit connect. I'm sure there are definition files out there for OBD I beretta V6's.

[IsaacHayes]

From what I read, and from my experience from gaining power with a new O2 even at WOT after the ECM "re-learned", the WOT fuel calculation is adjusted off of what the BLMs were for cruise.

So if say you threw in bigger injectors without a tune, the BLMs would adjust it down for cruise. Then go WOT and they would still be adjusted back based off of the stored BLM calcs. But it will not read the O2 at WOT. So if it said pull 3% fuel everywhere, then you go WOT, it will spray the set amount for WOT along with 3% less fuel...

If the WOT calc does not reference cruise BLM's at all then how come when I changed my O2 sensor it was quicker at WOT as well? If it doesn't then bumping the FPR to the new style means the ECM should adjust cruise, and then when going WOT you'd have increased fuel. I forget what the PSI difference is between the two.

All I know is the motor doesn't feel very powerful right now. It doesn't have the kick in the pants feel anymore. I figured I'd have a good bump in power with the exhaust up in the upper RPMs but I only feel/see a gain down low. It doesn't want to spin the tires off the line as easy now, but at the same time it also moves off the line quicker.. About the same change I felt from the 65mm TB. I wondered about the TB since there is a TPS as well, and if that is skewed due to flowing a lot more air per TPS angle if that would throw off any tables. The 65mm is probably on the big side. Somewhere between 56mm and 65mm is probably best for the engine where it's at now.

I've got a lot of little things to do still on the car before I look into it. I have not even had time to look at those logs I posted. I have to replace the trans mount and some other things that are needing attention before I look back at the performance. The trans is staying as the trans mount and the hub I replaced (now replaced with timken) are/were the cause of the vibration/shakes/etc and I don't think the trans is going to explode as it would have done so a long time ago. I did feel some power increase with a WAI until it got heat soaked, so the modified air box is not cutting it. A CAI is on the list and that might help. The WAI absolutely KILLS power in city driving. I can watch the engine temp gauge go up and bam no power. I also notice the engine gets hot fast breathing in hotter air which makes sense. Plugs look good, wires new, spark is fine. Fuel I don't know. Maybe the injectors need replacing? 220k+... The stock cat looked mint when I removed it which was a good sign, or a sign that I just ran the hell out of the car all the time.. I will do a compression check when I get a chance. That comes last. Trans I don't think is slipping as the TCC slip with my def seems reasonable. But I'm sure a fresh trans would bit harder. Fluid looks great. Clear/pink.