3500 help

[Berettas#1]

I have a 93 beretta 5 speed

I want to swap a 3500 in I just need some more info

Will ethier of the 3500s work the lx9 or the lz4?

I just need more info what else do I need I know its pretty straight forward but
I would like to have everything all together when I start.

Please give me links pics anything that will help. Thanks

[Barry]

You nEed the lx9. The details are out there, I'm on my iPod right now and can't bring it up.


You have a great starting platform though, possibly the easiest car to swap a 3500 into because you have the best motor mount setup in that year

[3400beretta]

Read http://www.3400swap.com. Its not exactly your situation but will give you a good idea of what you need.

You will need to get ahold of the passanger side engine mount brackets from a 94-96 3100 car, and cut off a pully boss on the 3500 timing cover. You will see what I mean when you try to bolt the mount bracket in place.

You will need a throttle body and adapter since the 3500 is drive by wire. You can use a stock 3400 tb if you want to keep things cheap, or the billet 65mm unit from TCE. You will also need the external crank trigger from TCE.

You also need to get a beretta 3100 fuel rail and some injectors. If you want to get this project running as quickly and cheaply as possible, you CAN use the 3100 injectors, and your stock 3.1 chip. However, this will not be ideal, and you will not get the most power out of this setup unless you get a proper tune, and some larger injectors. 3.4 dohc injectors are a good match for a stock or lightly modded 3500.

You also need to block off the egr, or buy the adapter to use your 3.1 egr.

Use your 3.1 alternator.

You will need to slightly modify your jack shaft bracket - the one that bolts the engine. It seems like it fits, but its off just a hair - they moved the boss' on the 3500 block for some reason, compared to all other previous 3100/3400 blocks. If you don't modify this bracket so that it fits correctly, your jack shaft will be slightly crooked and wear out your differential bearings hella fast.

Also grab the harmonic balancer from a 3100/3400. The 3500 one is larger.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.

[13's or bust]

now what about a tce crank trigger? i was told you need one in order to do a full 3500 swap. or is that needed just for obd2 equipped vehicles? i was also looking into what is all needed but im going to swap a 3500 into a 4t60e obd2 equipped vehicle.

i was also told if your using the 3500 uim youll need a map adapter and pigtail, a coil pack adapter, a modded 3 pin ect sensor, and a 2000-02 cam sensor. ohh and another thing dont know how true it is but i need to use phenolic spacers in order to clear the fuel rails but i want to run stock fuel rails and injectors up until bfest 2011. ohh and you need to use 3400 exhaust manifolds with a custom dp or the stock 3100 exhaust manifolds because the 3500 crossover runs under the vehicle so unless you make a custom one it wont work. now i could be wrong but this is just some of the information i have gathered in a few weeks time. for all you 3500 swappers please chip in on this so berettas #1 and I could swap a 3500 into our vehicles.

[3400beretta]

Read http://www.3400swap.com. Its not exactly your situation but will give you a good idea of what you need.

You will need to get ahold of the passanger side engine mount brackets from a 94-96 3100 car, and cut off a pully boss on the 3500 timing cover. You will see what I mean when you try to bolt the mount bracket in place.

You will need a throttle body and adapter since the 3500 is drive by wire. You can use a stock 3400 tb if you want to keep things cheap, or the billet 65mm unit from TCE. You will also need the external crank trigger from TCE.

You also need to get a beretta 3100 fuel rail and some injectors. If you want to get this project running as quickly and cheaply as possible, you CAN use the 3100 injectors, and your stock 3.1 chip. However, this will not be ideal, and you will not get the most power out of this setup unless you get a proper tune, and some larger injectors. 3.4 dohc injectors are a good match for a stock or lightly modded 3500.

You also need to block off the egr, or buy the adapter to use your 3.1 egr.

Use your 3.1 alternator.

You will need to slightly modify your jack shaft bracket - the one that bolts the engine. It seems like it fits, but its off just a hair - they moved the boss' on the 3500 block for some reason, compared to all other previous 3100/3400 blocks. If you don't modify this bracket so that it fits correctly, your jack shaft will be slightly crooked and wear out your differential bearings hella fast.

Also grab the harmonic balancer from a 3100/3400. The 3500 one is larger.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.

Need a crank trigger no matter if you're running obd1 or 2. No map adapter, you run the 3500 MAP, you just need to splice in the connector - which has came with every engine I've bought from the junkyard. No coil pack adapter, you just need to re-drill the coil pack mounting holes in the 3500 coil pack bracket, or you can modify a 3100/3400 bracket - but only 2 mounting holes will line up. Yes, you need a 3 pin ECT sensor and an adapter that is sold at carquest if you want you're temp gauge to function and you do not want to drill and tap any holes. The part number is floating around somewheres for the adapter. To run 3100/3400 fuel rails you can either grind the throttle body neck of the 3500 manifold, or purchase the FPR adapter sold my TCE. A note on the manfolds - only the 3500's from the cars (malibu, g6) have the header style, the 3500s in the Uplander vans and possibly the saturns have the crossover style just like a 3400. Yes they are all LX9s. Cam sensors are all the same, you just need to change the connector.

[13's or bust]

sorry rodney, i was on the go when i read your reply.

ok, well ill be using a 3400 uim or a large port 3100 uim which i should of stated in the first place. so i wont need to grind the fuel rails for fitment issues, also i would just use the 3100 map sensor correct? and i wont have to modify the coil pack bracket will i since im using the big port 3100/3400 uim? Milzy motor sports sells everything that i need for the swap but i wasnt sure if i needed certain parts, i didnt want to buy parts i didnt need too so thats why i replied to the topic.

could you use a 3500 front ex. manifold and use a 3400 crossover and rear mani? i really wish i could afford headers but i just want to get the motor in first.

my goal for the swap is to run a low 14 sec slip with a 3.69fdr trans and a bigger stall, drive it there and back no trailer queens here, and also get 25+ mpg. That is my ultimate goal for the swap. I wish you lived closer rodney i would pay you to help me swap in the motor since you obviously know something about the motor lmao.

[3400beretta]

ok, well ill be using a 3400 uim or a large port 3100 uim which i should of stated in the first place. so i wont need to grind the fuel rails for fitment issues, also i would just use the 3100 map sensor correct? and i wont have to modify the coil pack bracket will i since im using the big port 3100/3400 uim? Milzy motor sports sells everything that i need for the swap but i wasnt sure if i needed certain parts, i didnt want to buy parts i didnt need too so thats why i replied to the topic.

This is all correct.

As far as your manifolds - which type are you talking about? The header style or the log style? The log style 3500 should be compatable but I don't see a benefit in doing this, as the 3500 log style should be identical to the late model 3400 log style. The ports MIGHT be slightly larger on the 3500 mani's.. I'm not sure about this if someone wants to confirm. If you have the 3500 manifolds - just use them.. and get a downpipe from Dusty.

[13's or bust]

the downpipe ill be getting soon. my question is will the 3500 ex. manifolds bolt up to a 3100/3400 crossover? i cant find a 3500 with the crossover on top. or here ill make it easier.....

which exhaust manifolds should i use, i cant find 3500 exhaust manifolds with the top crossover. i have a header style 3400 for the rear along with crossover. which front manifold should i use? the 3400 or the 3500 front exhaust manifold.

[13's or bust]

one more question..is the waterpump housing on a 3500 part of the timing cover? if so i can buy a 9,000 mile motor for $300 bucks which im realy thinking about it..but that was why i had to ask. It said it has a broken waterpump housing. Im guessing front end wreck. but idk, if someone could please answer that that would be greatly appreciated.

[beretta]

i should still have a fuel rail kicking around i had 1 for 3100 and 3400 but i only have 1 now that i can remember, and injectors for 3100 and 3400, both were complete running engines before i tore them down for the top ends and changed my plans to turbo swap. recently moved so all my car crap is mixed in boxes all over still if you need injectors for either 31 or 3400 let me know.

[13's or bust]

beretta, i have a 3100 fuel rail with injectors in the car now which ill be swapping over to the 3500. thank you though.

[3400beretta]

No, the 3500 header style manifold will not bolt up to a normal crossover. Totally different setup. Just grab a 3400 front manifold to use then.

Yes, waterpump housing is part of the timing cover.

[beretta]

i like the look of the 3400 in these cars, almost makes me want to do the swap lol. but i have chosen to go with a 3.1 L factory turbo engine that i have purchased but not yet picked up. hopfully i go get it before spring and get it built. if i come across another beretta cheap i think im going to do a 3400 swap in it.

there is a 95/96 z26 forsale locally here for cheap but havent herd back on it yet, that would prob be an easier 3400 swap then my 88 since it has a newer computer and different style mounts.

[13's or bust]

96 3400 swap is the easier swap there is, pretty big upgrade also easily nets you md 15's if not a little faster. i ran 15.2 with old 3100 intake manifolds, a little bit bigger stall than stock (2095) and a 97 ecm change with a 3400mod tune and that was through stock exhaust never got a chance to run it down at the track with the exhaust cutout open i think i could have gotten a 15.1 pass. that was fast to me, my new one im going for 14.2's if not faster with a little laughing gas

and rodney thank you. Ill be buying a 9,000 mile motor prolly next week after i get my taxes back. $300 bucks isnt bad i dont think. lol.

next questions, which uim gasket do i use? and which exhaust manifold gasket do i use since ill be using the 3400 exhaust setup.

[mickaz]

I did a 14.9 with it consistently with a 3500 no weight reduction and full tank of gas. a great starting point for a NA build.