3500 help

[13's or bust]

mickaz you did a 14.9 with a stock trans 2.93 ratio? i at least want to run a mid 14 with the 3.69 fdr trans with a 2363 stall converter and hopefully by bfest 12 itll be cammed with a built trans.

[mickaz]

well i got my trans from a 93 bonneville Ssei with a little higher then stock converter. right now its not fully tuned and its running on part of the 3400 calibration.

[13's or bust]

ohh icic...mine will be on a 3100 tune for a little bit up until bfest 2011 than itll be tuned for a full 3500 swap im hoping. just dont know what fuel injectors to go with yet.

ssei trans? is that a hd trans? 4t60e-HD? i was hoping for a 14.8 with the tune for the 3100 and the 3.69fdr trans. whats your fuel economy looking like?

[wicked-irocz]

With a 3500:

Don't run a 96 past 3500 RPM without injectors AND a tune.

Don't run a 94/95 past 20% throttle without injectors.

Installing 21#/hr injectors rated at 43.5 psi in a 94/95 will give you a pretty good running car. I would recomend an AFPR for adjusting the base fuel pressure to adjust it closer based on the STFT and LTFT.

[13's or bust]

So dusty, first my car is a 96. Your saying dont run it past 3500? Can I ask why im not very familiar with tuning I saw you nd jon tinkering at bfest 11 when jon forgot to put his car on run lol. I dont get the whole tuning aspect thats why ill be sending jon the ecm for whatever he could do without datalogging my car. Ill be using the stock injectors from a 3100 which I know they shouod be pretty close to maxxed out but I dont see why I cant drive over 3500 rpm. Im just confused about that.

[3400beretta]

Hes talking about on a stock tune. The engine isn't going to instantly blow up as soon as you hit 3510 rpm, but just don't be beating on it till you get a tune is the point.

[wicked-irocz]

Stock injectors are maxed out on a 160 hp (as in stock) motor. Really, anything more than a CAI and cat-back on a 3100 requires new injectors or a raised fuel pressure. Add a downpipe to that equation and you will run lean. Jon cannot make stock fuel injectors flow more through the computer as they just cannot support the power, you need bigger injectors.

[13's or bust]

well i was just going to run stock injectors up until bfest in indy than idk what injectors i should bring to swap over too. any inputs on injectors that i should get? and no i wont be beating on it, i know i have to get a tune before i could start beating on it. should i bring the multec 2's? or something bigger? ill have a walboro 255 fuel pump installed before bfest.

question about the tce crank trigger what should i set the timing at? 0?

[3X00-Modified]

Doesn't matter where the TCE trigger is and why bother screwing with that when you can fully change the timing tables in the ECM... Somewhat pointless.

As far as the injectors go I assumed you were going to have 3400 injectors in there... 3100 ones I would not expect to run well at all on a 3500 and Sorry Jon but I know how you drive a car so if your swapping in the engine then just do it right the first time and put the car to the side till I can get you a file that is at least tuned for the proper injectors. There is no sense in driving it much with the stock injectors especially if you are going to have the modified harness for the Multec 2's and the injectors.

You should be running an AFPR or at least the 00+ 3400 FPR since those are 55PSI... Also Dusty I do not recommend adjusting the Fuel pressure to dial in the trims since that somewhat modify's the IFR, The BEST thing to do would be to know what exactly the IFR is for your injectors so you can properly set it in the ECM and then you use the MAF tables to dial in the trims since most of our changes have to do with out intake and exhaust so we are modifying the VE and Flow of the air in the motor. Granted yes we put in larger injectors, but you can just take the current IFR and do the math against the Lb/hr difference to get your new "close" IFR.

Yeah tuning rambling... ^^

[Wanako]

mind = blown. I really need to start studying tuning.

[3X00-Modified]

well there are many ways to tune and I find a few of them to be backwards or attacking it in the wrong direction.

As far as adjusting the fuel pressure to correct trims, that will work on a 94-95 type car since all you can work with is mechanical items, you can't control the ECM and tell it that the airflow is changing so the best you can do is adjust the amount of fuel going it to compensate.

As for the 96+ ecm's... The best thing to do would be to flow bench the injectors at the levels listed in the table... They have a vac scale and that corresponds to the injector flow rate since at different manifold vac's the injectors are getting a different pressure... If you could dial that in so it matches what fuel you flow then all of your VE and MAF tables would be WAY more accurate and true... Right now 90% of the files I see have one value all the way across the IFR table so it assumes the injector flows the same ammount of fuel when at 35psi(idle) vs WOT 43.5psi... which obvioulsy is not true.

I would love to some day have flow numbers for my injectors like that so I could experiment with my tune and see how it would respond having the IFR change with the MAP reading.

[wicked-irocz]

Also Dusty I do not recommend adjusting the Fuel pressure to dial in the trims since that somewhat modify's the IFR, The BEST thing to do would be to know what exactly the IFR is for your injectors so you can properly set it in the ECM and then you use the MAF tables to dial in the trims since most of our changes have to do with out intake and exhaust so we are modifying the VE and Flow of the air in the motor. Granted yes we put in larger injectors, but you can just take the current IFR and do the math against the Lb/hr difference to get your new "close" IFR.

If you re-read what I said that was only for 94-95 cars. I wouldn't recommend that when its so easy to do it the right way on the 96. I have flow matched and done the scaling your talking about with the injectors for both Kelly's car and my own. It is somewhat nice to have access to that when your doing most of your tuning on a car making 100 hp over stock with some tweeks to the signals and fuel pressure curve adjustments. One thing about the pressure to add though is that injectors, in theory flow the same at idle or WOT due to the pressure differential between the intake manifold and the fuel pressure. On most factory cars for every 1 psi of negative pressure in the intake the fuel pressure also drops 1 psi so the fuel flow is fairly constant.

[13's or bust]

OMG^ too all of that lmao, jon cant you just live closer to me so i can pay you to help me and maybe teach me about computers and also tuning lol. Dusty your closer but your a obd 1 tuner correct?

well thats why im asking here ill start my own topic...itll make it easier sorry to the current OP...topic will be HELP!!!!!

[3X00-Modified]

Dusy is OBDII as well. Kelly's is OBDII and his GP is OBDII. He's starting out on that but was more of OBDI before.

Also interesting info Dusty, I was not aware of the IFR being rather consistant regardless of the pressure.

[13's or bust]

^ didnt know that.