MMS Stage 2 3100 Dyno Results

[MilzyZ34]

(mcgavinz26 @ Jan. 30 2006,11:49)Q
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EYou're living the dream.  I'd like to get a shop doing some automotive performance stuff... but that probably won't happen, not on my own anyways.  I say good job and good results.  I think most of us know the ballpark range of what these cars are putting down, enough to know that those numbers aren't too shabby.  Go easy on him, who cares if he didn't get it dynoed stock.  As arnorld would say in T3 "RELAX!" ÂÂÂ

What kind of gas were you using in this run?  Did you change the compression ratio change at all (I see that some milling was an option on your stage 2)?  What kind of intake temps were you holding during the run?
I believe the car came in with 93 octane.

CR is 10.42:1

I'm not sure on intake temps, I'll have to look at the scans, but i remember numbers in the ~60 degree range.

[berettaspeed]

Im not taking sides in any way but more of getting people use this as a thought.

someone makes headers or a turbo kit or exhaust kit. everyone asks for dyno numbers. someone makes it possible to get some aftermarket in our favor. then people piss and moan because they don't have dyno numbers to show it has any kind of gains.

Now someone makes both, product and shows what it has put down.... now i still hear some pissing and moaning about the wrong dyno used..? you see where im going.....

this is why i don't try to join in group buys or get companies to make things, cause noone goes though and at the end people still complain. and yes its going to cost money to go faster and have someone else do the LABOR AND WORK!!!!!  do it yourself if your so worried about #s and getting ripped.... we don't have GM 350s and hondas where we would drown in aftermarket parts... just be happy and common we know what kind of numbers 3100s put down in stock form... and the smart people know dynos are not the only thing that matters.....hell a bigger fan can raise your HP on computer cars.. ÂÂÂ but its the general idea you gain HP!!!!!!

end of rant

[RebelGT]

(berettaspeed @ Jan. 30 2006,23:09)Q
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ENow someone makes both, product and shows what it has put down.... now i still hear some pissing and moaning about the wrong dyno used..? you see where im going.....
I hope you're not talking about me, I don't call what I'm doing "pissing and moaning" I call it asking for accurate information. If you're selling a product you best be prepared to back up your design, if you cann't do that, then you're SOL in my book.

[MilzyZ34]

(RebelGT @ Jan. 31 2006,05:50)Q
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E(berettaspeed @ Jan. 30 2006,23:09)Q
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ENow someone makes both, product and shows what it has put down.... now i still hear some pissing and moaning about the wrong dyno used..? you see where im going.....
I hope you're not talking about me, I don't call what I'm doing "pissing and moaning" I call it asking for accurate information. If you're selling a product you best be prepared to back up your design, if you cann't do that, then you're SOL in my book.
I believe I am backing up my design.  I can't tell everyone of my customers that before i do any work on their car, they have to take the car to get dyno'd beforehand, just in case we ever dyno their car, it puts down good numbers, and we brag about the results.  We also have a Grand Am 3400 that put down 203.x whp NA, and this car runs 13.9's at the track on street tires, and no weight reduction besides removing the spare tire and jack, and this I believe was with a 2.15 60'.  If this 3.1 owner decided to race his car, it'd probably run 14's, which is fast for a w-body car with the base motor.  the fastest anyone has gone is about 15.6 with one of these in that gen monte i believe, maybe slower.  whether he races it or not is up to him.  so for now i figured we'd brag about the results we had.

[Guest]

(MilzyZ34 @ Jan. 30 2006,10:19)Q
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E(wicked-irocz @ Jan. 29 2006,21:01)Q
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EIm gonna add to this too.  Even though you are probably making some good parts Rebel has a very good point.  I do not trust numbers unless very specific procedures are followed.  For my project I used a mustang dyno that had just been calibrated using a coast down cycle from 200 mph where dyno drag is calculated at each speed.  I recorded starting and ending oil temps and made sure they were consistent, used a weatherstation to correct to STP, am using the same tires, same tire pressures, and same brakes/wheels.  I also took an average of 3 runs which all 3 were within 2 hp of each other.  I did this before and will do it on the same dyno after.


You have a very nice website.  How long have you been in business?  How many people do you employ?  What do you have for testing equipment?  Where is your business located at exactly?  Im guessing dayton.
Thanks, we're always working to improve the site.

I've been running this business for about 4 years now, officially since about October 2004.  when I graduated from the University of Dayton in 2004 for Mechanical Engineering, I decided to get a little more serious about the business, and invest in myself.  It's definately a money-pit right now, but I think I'm doing a decent job of building a good rep, which I think is better than making money the first year.

Up until very recently I've been the only employee.  I do the board surfing, dealing with customers, e-mails, shipping, designing, dealing with vendors, fabrication, installations, tuning, the whole nine yards.  I also contract several fabricators to make parts for me which I design.  I also have a friend who does my website work for parts.  About a week or so ago, I brought on two friends who are very good mechanics to help me keep up with everything that needs done.  One is ASE'd, and one went to UTI.  They are good at what they do, and I pay them what they're worth.

As for testing.  My machineshop I use has a flowbench, DynoTune has the dyno, I use my pcm scanning/editting software to scan vehicle performance before and after installs (in the form of MAF readings, not a g-tech or anything).  I'd say the best test equipment we have is actually taking the cars to the track, b/c that's what all this is about anyways.

I run a lot of the business out of my house just south of downtown Dayton, and work out of several shops in the Dayton area.
Wow them is some good numbers I might consider doing that to my 3100 once I get my tax check back.  

What do those heads flow and what is the max lift on that cam?  

The last V-8 we built up we used the stock heads that a local guy ported and I don't think he did too good of a job.  I will have to look for that flow sheet I had done.  

looking good, hopefully I will be ordering soon

[berettaspeed]

(RebelGT @ Jan. 31 2006,05:50)Q
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E(berettaspeed @ Jan. 30 2006,23:09)Q
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ENow someone makes both, product and shows what it has put down.... now i still hear some pissing and moaning about the wrong dyno used..? you see where im going.....
I hope you're not talking about me, I don't call what I'm doing "pissing and moaning" I call it asking for accurate information. If you're selling a product you best be prepared to back up your design, if you cann't do that, then you're SOL in my book.
ok i reread what you were talking about, you may not be the pissing and moaning..... your proving your point in a more respectful manner which i will respect...and at least your stating why you do not agree with the dyno results

but none the less, i still feel the same about the post i made...

[mcgavinz26]

(berettaspeed @ Jan. 29 2006,23:09)Q
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EIm not taking sides in any way but more of getting people use this as a thought.

someone makes headers or a turbo kit or exhaust kit. everyone asks for dyno numbers. someone makes it possible to get some aftermarket in our favor. then people piss and moan because they don't have dyno numbers to show it has any kind of gains.

Now someone makes both, product and shows what it has put down.... now i still hear some pissing and moaning about the wrong dyno used..? you see where im going.....

this is why i don't try to join in group buys or get companies to make things, cause noone goes though and at the end people still complain. and yes its going to cost money to go faster and have someone else do the LABOR AND WORK!!!!!  do it yourself if your so worried about #s and getting ripped.... we don't have GM 350s and hondas where we would drown in aftermarket parts... just be happy and common we know what kind of numbers 3100s put down in stock form... and the smart people know dynos are not the only thing that matters.....hell a bigger fan can raise your HP on computer cars..  but its the general idea you gain HP!!!!!!

end of rant
Welcome to the year 1998.  People are broke here.

If you can't see these are decent numbers for these mods because of minor details, you are just being too picky, RELAX.  I don't want to start taking this off topic and arguing like kids though, thats all i'm gonna say.

Good numbers.

[wicked-irocz]

As with the above, I also admit that you are making good power gains, I would just like to see how many hp each mod is worth, esspecially headers, and how each mod changed the power curve.

[MilzyZ34]

(wicked-irocz @ Jan. 31 2006,22:52)Q
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EAs with the above, I also admit that you are making good power gains, I would just like to see how many hp each mod is worth, esspecially headers, and how each mod changed the power curve.
The thing is that you can't just add the horsepower gains for each mod.  performance is really about removing bottlenecks in the system.  Lets say you do every possible engine mod, but don't touch the exhaust at all, and then you dyno, and then you put headers and exhaust on the car.  Because exhaust would be the bottleneck, the next dyno you did would show really high differences in before and after.

Now lets say you dyno a stock car, then just throw the same exhaust and headers on the car, then dyno it again.  I bet you don't get near the same hp difference as you would in the above scenario.

The trick is to pick a group of mods that compliment eachother.  All the parts work together as a team, and the total hp gain is always more than the sum of the hp differences of each component.

[z284pwr]

(MilzyZ34 @ Feb. 01 2006,09:45)Q
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EThe trick is to pick a group of mods that compliment eachother.  All the parts work together as a team, and the total hp gain is always more than the sum of the hp differences of each component.
Excellent, excellent, someone that realizes this!

Its not how good the parts are, its how well the parts you have work together  

[1988GTU]

What would sticker go good with?










Just kidding!  

[berettaspeed]

(MilzyZ34 @ Feb. 01 2006,08:45)Q
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E(wicked-irocz @ Jan. 31 2006,22:52)Q
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EAs with the above, I also admit that you are making good power gains, I would just like to see how many hp each mod is worth, esspecially headers, and how each mod changed the power curve.
The thing is that you can't just add the horsepower gains for each mod.  performance is really about removing bottlenecks in the system.  Lets say you do every possible engine mod, but don't touch the exhaust at all, and then you dyno, and then you put headers and exhaust on the car.  Because exhaust would be the bottleneck, the next dyno you did would show really high differences in before and after.

Now lets say you dyno a stock car, then just throw the same exhaust and headers on the car, then dyno it again.  I bet you don't get near the same hp difference as you would in the above scenario.

The trick is to pick a group of mods that compliment eachother.  All the parts work together as a team, and the total hp gain is always more than the sum of the hp differences of each component.
but the thing is thats how magazines advertise these 20HP gaining mufflers.. LOL its on a car trying to runn 20psi and everything possible is done to the car...then they go and put a stock muffler on.. say OMG 200HP and woith our new and improved muffler... you get 250 HP WOW amazing.

I say that a nice gain in HP you have there. and yes its everything put together that matters. one off the wall part can ruin the whole setup. damn GM exhaust manifolds they SUCK

[Guest]

Milzy will ya answer my question above?  

"What do those heads flow and what is the max lift on that cam?"  I wanna run some things by the old boys at the garage, as they have been racin for years.  

Thanks,
James

[z284pwr]

(berettaspeed @ Feb. 01 2006,18:10)Q
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EI say that a nice gain in HP you have there. and yes its everything put together that matters. one off the wall part can ruin the whole setup. damn GM exhaust manifolds they SUCK
Not necessarily, my dad and his brother used to have a Drag Camaro, they were using odd-ball heads/crank to make a wanna-be 427/455 thing, they deck height wasn't right so a valve and piston became best friends, they rebuilt the engine with 7 good aftermarket pistons, and one beater stock piston and still ran killer times in the day

[MilzyZ34]

(BerettaJames @ Feb. 03 2006,19:24)Q
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EMilzy will ya answer my question above? ÂÂÂ

"What do those heads flow and what is the max lift on that cam?"  I wanna run some things by the old boys at the garage, as they have been racin for years. ÂÂÂ

Thanks,
James
James, I have flow numbers, but I'll tell you right now, they will sound high.  I don't want to post them on a forum until I have them on the website, but our heads flow a ton!

the stage 2 cam is .556/.559 valve lift.